AmericanPatriot wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:56 am

[...]
3. No, that makes no sense to me.

Belts do get that fancy laser scanner thingy going on when you hook them up. I think that justifies at least 1W of power draw (besides being convenient for consistency). I did list that as optional though.

[...] Removing the pulse signal entirely is a drastic answer and I don't endorse it -- because it's a very useful thing that I use all the time , so kindly don't sneer at me for being unable to make things work --, but it's not the actual proposal here. The idea of clocking every logic device based...

What feature? The pulse function on inserters? I just demonstrated how it could easily be reproduced without broken behavior, so how is that removing it from the game?

Aru wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:32 am

image

[...]

I haven't looked at the blueprints, but judging from your description of non-combinator attempts and what I see in this image, I strongly suspect you have encountered this mess.

In this topic I demonstrated an inconsistency between inserters and combinators under low power conditions, (namely that the pulses from inserters do not slow down under low power like those from combinators do,) thinking it was a bug. I was told it's not a bug, but it's still inconsistent behavior,...

You can definitely do that, but I don't see much reason to include it in the blueprint, since you could just plunk down a boiler in place of one of the heat exchangers temporarily and dump fuel into it manually. No need for any additional infrastructure, so it's even more trivial than auxiliary sola...

I know, but then it's not a pure nuclear build, and wouldn't be compatible with the "Steam all the way" achievement. Adding a solar backup is a pretty trivial exercise, so I figure I'd assume it unwanted, and leave it to the end-user to tack one on at runtime if desired. I never thought of...

Erp. Unfortunately, there's no way to build a combinator logic circuit that can work while unpowered, (so the reset won't help there,) and an auto-starting circuit is going to get confused if you just manually prime the reactors and leave the system to its own devices. I hadn't considered trying to ...

[...] The optimal option is make all entites behave the same by the same rules under low power. But I dont think it's realistic How is this unrealistic? Throughout my posts, I've outlined how electrical networks could be used to implement logic clocks that keep all logic devices operating within th...

That's odd, there shouldn't be any normal case where the fuel count gets below 0. Did you happen to prime the reactors by manually putting in fuel? As another possibility, was your factory low on power when you started up this plant? You can restore it to normal behavior by undoing your change to th...

The depth is, that you need to think about it, once you find out, that there is this behavior. And there are several strategies: I should point out that a big problem with this idea is that it's so difficult to identify that there is this behavior. Judging from the replies in this thread, the vast ...

I mean a combinator under low power is able to change the 1 tick pulse almost randomly. The pulse from the inserter or belt would have to be changed by the same rules. It's not random, but yes, that's the idea, that all logic devices follow the same low power rules. Combinators already do that amon...

But it's a pulse through a combinator, which obscures it. A pure pulse is one tick long. A pulse from an inserter has to be obscured identically and in sync. I'm not sure what you mean by "obscure". Combinators, inserters, and belts can all be set up to generate pulses. The difference is ...

jodokus31 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:28 pm

What is a fullspeed Signal? A pulse Signal is sent in one tick. It cannot be longer based on electricity

Yes it can. If you make a pulse generator with combinators and run it under low power, the pulse will last longer when the combinator stalls.

[...]Trying to make them all update at the same time would cause implementation issues when there would be multiple combinators in the same circuit network logic but they would be powered by isolated electric network with different state of overload.[...] What would the implementation issues here b...

foamy wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:58 pm

[...]These stout-hearted defense of an absurd and uninteresting corner case baffles me, particularly when they don't seem to pay much heed to the actual issue under discussion.

Consider me equally baffled.

And then there's the actual *useful* meaning of deterministic in this discussion, which is that if you have access to the actual tools the player does, you can know what will happen. Oh, well, sure, if you can just make words mean anything you like, this argument's clearly over. No, that's a clearl...

I don't know why that makes no sense. Inserters are mechanical and move slower when deprived of power. Combinators are little computers with no moving parts. I would expect them to behave differently with low power. How does it make sense that an inserter, which also behaves like a little computer ...

The problem is belts and send pulse signals, and if a combinator is low on power it can miss a pulse. But because they have a little internal power buffer, some combinators may see the pulse while others may not. The one I'm highlighting is specifically the inconsistency between inserters and combi...

As a corollary to this topic and the scenario (B) above, I'd like to add that, in the name of consistency, I'd welcome the addition of a 1W power requirement on other normally un-powered devices (such as belts) when hooked into a logic circuit. Not only would that add a bit of realism, (given the ex...