Search found 160 matches

by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 7:10 am
Forum: Gameplay Help
Topic: Tips, Designs, & Tricks
Replies: 210
Views: 256937

Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Well anyways, said enough about width already. And yeah, agreed on our 2 designs. We've proven why having boiler chains is a really bad idea when stacking, which is good enough reason to remove the original compact power plant. Neither of ours uses boiler chains. And Aru's design should still be kep...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 7:01 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Then start by making a logical compromise that states it's 71 tiles wide, but the power poles on the right can be used for powering other things, rather than saying its width somehow varies between 70 and 71 tiles wide, depending on how useful the power poles on the right is. See something wrong wit...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 6:51 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

I know. But my redstone designs aren't counted as anything more than 0 blocks shorter either, no less somewhere in between. Refer to my last post in the tips, designs, tricks thread - this partial concept you're thinking of is concerned with area density, not area. Partially occupied 1 tile-wide col...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 6:43 am
Forum: Gameplay Help
Topic: Tips, Designs, & Tricks
Replies: 210
Views: 256937

Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

I was talking about the width also, the 67/71 tiles number. By partial weight, I was referring to the fact that weight implies mass. The 2 poles obviously only partially occupy the 1 column they're in, but they still occupy one whole column in width, even if less than a column's full space (3 tiles ...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 6:35 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Yeah, but once you space out the labs, you're now making the labs occupy another tile wider. No difference in combined width than if you had simply shifted all labs right of the power poles. While I agree the power poles can and often are useful, utility is simply a nonfactor in measuring physical w...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 6:24 am
Forum: Gameplay Help
Topic: Tips, Designs, & Tricks
Replies: 210
Views: 256937

Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Oh but see, I DO count them as partial weight. But I definitely don't count them as partial rows. That's the difference. It's still around the same, but the point I was making with all these calculations is that my design doesn't sacrifice power by area to save space. It might have higher resource p...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 6:16 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

https://i.imgsafe.org/09b05c6.jpg Medium poles can connect to the 3 steam engines circled in red? I don't think so ;) Like said many times, how useful the poles are on the 71th tile doesn't change the fact that it's 71 tiles. See the stone wall structure? That isn't 3 tiles wide, it's 4 tiles wide,...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 5:50 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Oh, you're right on the offshore pumps. Sorry, didn't remember they occupy a tile on land too. Then yes, mine is 67 tiles, yours is 71. Updating the math post to reflect that then. You can't just move the poles out. They don't have that kind of range (4 tiles from center) to power both the labs and ...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 5:47 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

I already acknowledge that it isn't 15% difference, but the point is, mine is higher in power by area, not lower. By 0.7575..% exactly. Not counting the offshore pumps, the size is also exactly 6.0606% smaller, and I haven't measured the difference between yours and mine's resource cost.
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 5:46 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Yes, I didn't include the offshore pumps for either design, since that's built on water and has nothing to do with occupying land. And the same can be said of many designs in redstone and circuitry, the edge rows/columns often have wiring that don't need to be repeated when stacking, but it doesn't ...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 5:29 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Mine doesn't need a row above. And I was using the tileable parts for area. If you count it as 3 shorter as you said, 10 engines per 70 length, vs. 9.5 engines per 67 length, (9.5/67)/(10/70) = 0.99253. But in my post I was counting it as 3.25 and also 3.5 shorter, for the small poles on the right ...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 4:25 am
Forum: Gameplay Help
Topic: Tips, Designs, & Tricks
Replies: 210
Views: 256937

Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

My analysis is (compared to the one I gave), it's smaller (4.28% - 5.63%), slightly less power per raw resource (~2.88%), and power per area is about the same. If you switch the underground pipes for normal ones, it's about tied again for power per resource (0.36% higher) but you can't walk through...
by Patric20878
Fri May 06, 2016 3:52 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

That is nice, it's compact, 3 tiles shorter. (4 shorter if you count a stretched, movable row of small poles, which can be walked through, so maybe 3.25 or 3.5 shorter) Eh, the steam engines themselves are 3 tiles narrower, and the belt/pipes are 1 tile narrower, compared to yours, so it's 4 tiles ...
by Patric20878
Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

And it's done! One thing led to another, leading me to finding how to compact 19 steam engines in a 50 by 6 area, and with only small poles! So now just like your design, it takes no research beyond logistics 1, heh. Would've been 29 engines in a 50x9 area too like how it used to be, but the new bel...
by Patric20878
Thu May 05, 2016 3:28 pm
Forum: Gameplay Help
Topic: Tips, Designs, & Tricks
Replies: 210
Views: 256937

Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Except the goal here is to incorporate all interesting things to my steam engine setup. ;) And so far, I've managed to do so (with some difficulty) - steam engine setups just aren't complex enough to need several branching designs. But anyways, I just finished the upgrade. Now is just as low-tech an...
by Patric20878
Wed May 04, 2016 8:05 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Yeah, that's why the old design used fast inserters at the belt. Since it then uses a long inserter to pull after that, there was no point making the 3rd inserter row also fast inserters. But since I am placing an emphasis on tech/resource efficiency this time around, a much better solution as menti...
by Patric20878
Wed May 04, 2016 7:43 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

If I can find a way to minimize boilers per chain in this setup, production dropping due to low consumption bar will no longer be an issue. I'm starting to understand why I had the problem with laser turrets dropping production, where you didn't. You didn't chain boilers. I did with the old setup, o...
by Patric20878
Wed May 04, 2016 7:24 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

And whether it's for 1 or 2 burner inserters, production only returns to max if the consumption bar is at least 11%, correct? Burner inserter count affects recovery speed , while consumption % affects how much % the production will be recovered, right? Then first, if it's true that boilers should co...
by Patric20878
Wed May 04, 2016 7:06 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Edited last post to ask why 1 burner inserter wouldn't have a minimum threshold of 0. With one burner inserter and 13 electric, it's 6.44%. With two burners, it's 1.17%. Three burners, it's impossible. You only need 2 to make this impossible. How does this not heavily imply that with 1, it's still p...
by Patric20878
Wed May 04, 2016 6:58 am
Forum: Energy Production
Topic: Optimized Steam Engine Setup
Replies: 316
Views: 236251

Re: Optimized Steam Engine Setup

Well hey, if you said that first in plain english at the beginning of the post, without all the calculations in the way, and also mentioned that this kind of thing will basically never happen in game, it'd be understandable immediately, wouldn't it? ;) And I could've sworn I said before, my engine s...

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