My thought on the oil industry

[BurnHard]

then what is the point of having tank cart? That is my question. If tank cart will carry barrels - how is it any different from cargo wagon?

No, I thought there will be both. I misunderstood you in the first place.

Tank cart for transporting large quantities, yes with some sort of hose or special inserter to insert into the large vessel. And then some sort of filling station to insert into barrels where we need smaller quantities for transporting with logistic robots.

OR for transporting over large distances we have to rely on pipelines if we dont want to barrel up the oil, I don't know whats really better.

[slpwnd]

I have a question.

Assuming we will have tank carts - how will oil/fuel will be transferred to and from them without water crane-like structure?

In 0.9 there will be no tank cart (we would need the graphics for that and the graphics and logic for the "fluid inserter"). This will come later.

However there will be a possibility to put the oil into the barrels and then transport it in the normal cargo wagon. This is kind of experimental because we are not 100% sure it would work well together with having the tank carts. Though it might be a good alternative with tradeoffs. So anyway it will be like an experimental feature. This way there will be 2 options how to deliver the oil from the resource field to the factory for processing:

1) With the pipe, nice and simple but less scalable.
2) Package the oil into barrels, transport barrels as regular items and upackage them again.

[hoho]

However there will be a possibility to put the oil into the barrels and then transport it in the normal cargo wagon. This is kind of experimental because we are not 100% sure it would work well together with having the tank carts. Though it might be a good alternative with tradeoffs.

I guess it would be just good enough if packaging into/outside of barrel would need extra energy+time vs just pumping oil directly in/out of tank cart. That way people could mix a few barrels of oil to be sent to some distant location together with other resources without having to drag a whole cart full of oil there when most of that fuel won't get used anyway.

[ficolas]

I have two questions moddingwise about this topic.
Will we be able to make any liquid heatable?
And will we be able to specify the temperature of the liquid when assembling?

[Darthlawsuit]

I like the idea of not completely draining the resource at one point but rather slowly decreasing the production (and maybe stopping the decrease and holding the production steady at some low value). Something to keep in mind for the future releases. Though this might inhibit the need for exploring for the new resources a bit.

I am invested in a few oil companies and I have learned a LOT just from their press releases.

One of their new wells had an "initial production rate" which varied from 60-70 BPD. Within 2 weeks it had stabilized at about 50-55 BPD. It kept that rate for many months then it started to lose pressure and the BPD has went down each week. A few months later it was at 35 BPD and the rate of decrease has slowed down. It will decrease slowly over many years till it's production is so low it is not economically feasible to maintain it.

Some of their "marginal wells" are old wells that are past their prime and produce 3-5 BPD. They produce but not by much.

Having "active wells" and "Marginal wells" might not be a bad idea. It will force you to expand to get more oil but you don't get cut off right away, you can see it coming.

[kovarex]

I like the idea of not completely draining the resource at one point but rather slowly decreasing the production (and maybe stopping the decrease and holding the production steady at some low value). Something to keep in mind for the future releases. Though this might inhibit the need for exploring for the new resources a bit.

I am invested in a few oil companies and I have learned a LOT just from their press releases.

One of their new wells had an "initial production rate" which varied from 60-70 BPD. Within 2 weeks it had stabilized at about 50-55 BPD. It kept that rate for many months then it started to lose pressure and the BPD has went down each week. A few months later it was at 35 BPD and the rate of decrease has slowed down. It will decrease slowly over many years till it's production is so low it is not economically feasible to maintain it.

Some of their "marginal wells" are old wells that are past their prime and produce 3-5 BPD. They produce but not by much.

Having "active wells" and "Marginal wells" might not be a bad idea. It will force you to expand to get more oil but you don't get cut off right away, you can see it coming.

I like it!

[slpwnd]

I have two questions moddingwise about this topic.
Will we be able to make any liquid heatable?
And will we be able to specify the temperature of the liquid when assembling?

1) Every liquid has a concept of the temperature. So yes, you can heat anything in boiler.
2) This will be possible in the near future (probably not in 0.9 yet though). We also plan to use a similar concept in the oil refinery later on (the crude-oil coming in would have to be heated to X degrees for the recipe).

The thing is that there has been a lot of changes in some very core code (recipes, fluids vs. items, etc.) so we want to keep the things simple first and add more functionality later.

[vulstar]

I could see great idea's with liquid pipes some totaly overkill some very good, some plain stuppid.

- Pressure and Valves.
Pressure in %, just like with water temprature, the higher the pressure the more oil goes into the needing machines the faster they can operate.
You would need some machine to give this pressure like big pumps maby even flow directions on the pipes?
Also there could be valves added that can be configured to open or close depending on the pressure on the pipes to have even more control over it.

- Damaged pipes leaking oil, fire breakout.
I could see oil being more dangerous to yourself, and the environment. The aliens could break or damage your pipes and oil would be spilled on the ground creating more pollution. When the oil gets in contact with electric machinery there is a chance of a fire breaking out.
Now combine this with the Valves and pressure. The valves that are leading to the fire could be auto closing because of the pressure loss that is caused by the leaking, stopping the fire from spreading even further. Or the player could manualy remove pipes to stop the fire from spreading.

- New protection kind of type, wall of fire.
Firebreakouts are a disaster, but learning from its highly destructive power its also a great tool to kill those alliens. Imagine a wall of fire comming out of a static placed mouth breatging fire into a single direction with a bursted forward spread of 5 tiles forward doing high damage to evrything in front of it.
(or even depend the flame distance on current pressure? and the valves controlling the max pressure throughput towards it? means adding a max pressure tolerance on the valve to set output to 60% or so(almost like a splitter but for oil lol))


- Tanks running on Oil, Armies, Command Centers
Those alliens Come at us and only grow stronger. I would love to see some AI driven tanks that require oil to run. Ofcourse since its factorio and we want stuff automated, tanks would be controlled by Command Centers.
How i would see this (but doesnt have to be necessairily):
Tank Production Facility -> Produces Tanks -> Tanks are moved on a belt to a Fuel Loader Station -> The belts could be like normal belts but the tank taking the full size of the belt. The belt would move the tank into the Command Center. The CC(Command Center) would register the tank to itself starting its AI and send orders to it wich can be configured in this CC(orders like Patrol, Defend inside defined max Range, Attack nearest Allien Camps that are in range, or move to another CC and let tank register with that CC).
The Command Center would function as an entrance exit for tanks to get on the belts so when a tank is low on fuell it would return to the CC and get on the belt to be refilled, the player can ofc manualy refill a tank, drive the tank himself, or maby even let flying robots refill it? To make it even more fun, tanks also require ammunition.

Let me put some more details for the Command Center::
One command center can control a limited ammount of tanks, and upgrade modules could increase its range of operation, the ammount of tanks it can control, and lowering the cost of operation. The Command Center functions as a hub for tanks to enter and exit the conveyor belts, where they can be moved to a refuel station, get repaired in a repair station, get its ammo refilled, get stored in a Tank Garage for later use, and get from the Production Facility to the CC. Also the Command Center could require purple chips to active the AI for each tank that comes out fo the Command Center. And since its using wireless conection with the tanks Radars would be required to communicate.


Because of all these extra possible features, the alliens could also be made even stronger during the later stages of the game.


~Oh crap i just made a wall of text and some very wild ideas.

[BurnHard]

Pressure on liquids is different than pressure on gases. Liquids are practically not compressable: Thus even if you give incredible high pressure to an liquid an a pipe, it can drop to zero with practically delivering no mass if you open the pipe on one end. The pressure is only needed to overcome the flow resistance in the pipe and gets lower over distance (without losing oil matter), dont think we want to simulate that,

If you want to simulate how much oil a machine uses, I would just lower the "flow" of the pipe. Eg pumps can supply 10 units per second per tile into the pipe, machine uses 2 units, flow in the pipe after the machine is just 8 units per second per tile. Thus I think the exact simulation of pressure in the pipes is not nessecary, the value "(max) flow" should be sufficient.

[vulstar]

Pressure on liquids is different than pressure on gases,,,

Ah yeah Flow is the word for it indeed, instead of pressure haha


*And some other idea by the way...

-When you pump oil out of the sea, it could be like mixed with water, and you would have to filter the water out with some sort of splitting machine that gives water on 1 side and oil on the other.

[Darthlawsuit]

Pressure on liquids is different than pressure on gases,,,

Ah yeah Flow is the word for it indeed, instead of pressure haha


*And some other idea by the way...

-When you pump oil out of the sea, it could be like mixed with water, and you would have to filter the water out with some sort of splitting machine that gives water on 1 side and oil on the other.

Pumping oil from under the sea does not cause the two to be mixed. if you have a bad pipe then it can happen but pipes are suppose to be completely sealed. Normally oil being pumped up is not contaminated. Of course sometimes you drill into a well that NASA a lot of water in the well

[ssilk]

Some times, the oil in the ground is filled up with water to get all out. Oil swims on water, so when the reservoir is pumped out it is refilled with water. It's sometimes not avoidable, that there is some water in the oil.

[Darthlawsuit]

Some times, the oil in the ground is filled up with water to get all out. Oil swims on water, so when the reservoir is pumped out it is refilled with water. It's sometimes not avoidable, that there is some water in the oil.

Oil does float on water. Once you start taking on water it is a sign your well is almost dry or you need to drill in at another location. No one keeps pumping a well that is giving you vast quantities of water unless you want water.

[Balthazar]

Do we have any more information on how barrels are expected to work? I had a nightmare where iron was used to make barrels of oil, and then the barrels of oil were burned and you lost the iron and i'm never going to sleep again. I'm hoping it'll be like with minecrafts forestry where you just put liquid in a container in one machine, then extract the container and the liquid seperately in another, and then you could move the barrels back to the pumpjacks and it would be great