Factorio Forums

+1 for the capsule overhaul! Bob style combat robots would be really cool.

I also like the idea of alien alloys.

orzelek wrote:I would be a bit on the fence with using non-mass producible items for ammo.

If that would be their only use it would work I guess - assuming you could produce enough ammo from one to make it worth it. Some intermediate processing step could be added to make more ammo from same amount of artifacts.

There are a total of 7 ammo types for this reason. the first of the 7 uses no artifacts to add no extra damage type, and can easilly be mass produced as your "Fall back" ammo type when you have no artifacts.

As the recipes currently stand, you make 5 bullets per actual bullet produced, same goes for shells, or a single missile. if you were to keep this ratio, and used a single alien artifact to make one, you'd very quickly starve yourself of artifacts.
if you were to instead use a small artifact, there's currently 25 of this to a full artifact, you could make 5 whole clips, or a stack of 25 shells for a total of 125 bullets/shells or 25 missiles from a single artifact. The problem is that you can't currently make small artifacts from full sized ones, and I don't think I'd want to add the abillty to, because then you end up with a recipe loop.

one possible solution would be to significantly increase the ammount of bullets from the recipe that uses the alien artifact, but the reason the ratios are as they are at the moment is because it seemed to work best when automated.


so, looking at an intermediate, the blue alien alloy I used as an example. From a single full sized blue alien artifact, and a few peices of tungsten (or powder) you could make a small stack of 10 to 25 blue alien alloy/compound which could be used in the ammo recipe to keep that aim of around 100 trigger pulls from a single full sized artifact.


why even consider using them in ammo recpies at all? well... once you have your power suit fully kitted out, what are you going to use the further spam of artifacts for? currently nothing. using them in ammo, something you'll probably want to use all the time, gives you something to burn them up in.

orzelek wrote:Should I expect any issues if I update the mod in my running game?

It should work fine in an existing game.

to clarrify:
If you weren't using the mod at all before and install it, it will work fine.
If you were using the previous version and update it, it will also work fine, none of the already existing recipes have changed.

Error Util.cpp:43: Error while loading item prototype "flame-thrower-acid" (ammo): No such node (damage)
Modifications: bobwarfare

Updated v0.1.2 to v0.1.3 I got that error

Edit1
name = "flame-thrower-acid",
subgroup = "ammo", => subgroup = "bob-ammo", I think
in protoypes>items>ammo

Lee_newsum wrote:Error Util.cpp:43: Error while loading item prototype "flame-thrower-acid" (ammo): No such node (damage)
Modifications: bobwarfare

Updated v0.1.2 to v0.1.3 I got that error

Edit1
name = "flame-thrower-acid",
subgroup = "ammo", => subgroup = "bob-ammo", I think
in protoypes>items>ammo

That's unusual because it doesn't error for me, and it should have a damage node on there. Best comment it out anyway as it's just something I was experimenting with, and is currently unused.

bobingabout wrote:

Lee_newsum wrote:Error Util.cpp:43: Error while loading item prototype "flame-thrower-acid" (ammo): No such node (damage)
Modifications: bobwarfare

Updated v0.1.2 to v0.1.3 I got that error

Edit1
name = "flame-thrower-acid",
subgroup = "ammo", => subgroup = "bob-ammo", I think
in protoypes>items>ammo

That's unusual because it doesn't error for me, and it should have a damage node on there. Best comment it out anyway as it's just something I was experimenting with, and is currently unused.

it may be down to Factorio 0.11.13 that I am using (I do not like the save updated they did)

Lee_newsum wrote:it may be down to Factorio 0.11.13 that I am using (I do not like the save updated they did)

You're right, it is. I compared to 0.11.15 (because I still have it) and there is a tag on the ammo itself that defines damage. In the later version the only damage tag is on the entity created by the weapon.

Hi Bob. First, I wanted to say thank you. I've been playing this game for over a year, and only in the last week did I download your mod. I had used small minor individual mods in the past but not really any of the "big" ones like yours. It has added so much the game I can't believe it. Just the "red circuit" chain alone is blowing my mind! Right now, I have things in a sloppy ad-hoc way in order to manually make them, but I look forward to getting a proper setup. I know I could look it up or use a flowchart but I want to enjoy the discovery of doing it myself. Now then, on to the warfare part.

I'm enjoying the different bitters and the ammo types. Its nice to see that the damage types can actually matter if used correctly. The rifle and sniper rifle feel balanced and that they give you a real chance. The rifle/sniper are useless if you get swarmed by smalls and maybe mediums. The rifle is perfect for medium-large or more, and the sniper rifle is brilliant. Nothing feels too overpowered.

These items fix a major flaw in the normal game: Big Bitters. See, normally by the time they start spawning regularly, you will have the vanilla piercing bullets and maybe gun damage/speed upgrades around 3 max (because it only takes red-green science). Ever try to kill a single big bitter with this setup? You will empty, literally, 35 ammo in order to kill one (even though you are probably being chased by 3+). Try driving in the car and using its gun and the bullets and cry as you kill it. Your guns/ammo fix this problem, especially in the "early-mid game" (red/green on auto-production). It also helps remove the really boring "laser turret creep" game.

Unfortunately, there is still a large gap in survival. With just red science, you can get the Heavy Armor (steel), but the next step up (basic modular armor) is all the way into red AND blue circuits (or the bob-equivalents). That's huge! So even with the new weapons, you can take out some enemies, or take out some and then run back to your laser wall, but it still suffers from "turret creep" syndrome. I'm not sure what the answer should be, but currently you just end up being a glass cannon until much later. But again, thanks to your weapons, at least you don't have to empty clip after clip into a single big bitter that never dies.

There is also a possible mistake in your mod. It allows you to research and build the laser rifle and the subsequent ammo upgrades, but you can't build anything besides the gun. I traced the reason to the prototypes/technology/gun.lua. The first entry (laser rifle) only unlocks the recipe for the rifle and the basic ammo, but not the battery case required to make it (so you can never make any ammo). It is simply missing: Once I added that (and forced the recipe since I had already researched laser rifles), everything worked. Perhaps you left it out on purpose because you didn't want to introduce the laser rifle stuff yet(?), I'm not sure. Sorry for the wall of text but thanks again for your hard work and fun mods!

callmewoof wrote:Hi Bob. First, I wanted to say thank you. I've been playing this game for over a year, and only in the last week did I download your mod. I had used small minor individual mods in the past but not really any of the "big" ones like yours. It has added so much the game I can't believe it. Just the "red circuit" chain alone is blowing my mind! Right now, I have things in a sloppy ad-hoc way in order to manually make them, but I look forward to getting a proper setup. I know I could look it up or use a flowchart but I want to enjoy the discovery of doing it myself. Now then, on to the warfare part.

There is information about it if you look for it, but there could be a lot more out there.

callmewoof wrote:I'm enjoying the different bitters and the ammo types. Its nice to see that the damage types can actually matter if used correctly. The rifle and sniper rifle feel balanced and that they give you a real chance. The rifle/sniper are useless if you get swarmed by smalls and maybe mediums. The rifle is perfect for medium-large or more, and the sniper rifle is brilliant. Nothing feels too overpowered.

That was the aim, to try and make them relatively ballanced. Also, the Rifle and Sniper rifle can be quite effective against small and medium biters if you use ammo that has an area effect, such as Acid, Explosive, Poison or Flame.

callmewoof wrote:These items fix a major flaw in the normal game: Big Bitters. See, normally by the time they start spawning regularly, you will have the vanilla piercing bullets and maybe gun damage/speed upgrades around 3 max (because it only takes red-green science). Ever try to kill a single big bitter with this setup? You will empty, literally, 35 ammo in order to kill one (even though you are probably being chased by 3+). Try driving in the car and using its gun and the bullets and cry as you kill it. Your guns/ammo fix this problem, especially in the "early-mid game" (red/green on auto-production). It also helps remove the really boring "laser turret creep" game.

I agree, the base game is kind of lacking a bullet effective against big biters.

callmewoof wrote:Unfortunately, there is still a large gap in survival. With just red science, you can get the Heavy Armor (steel), but the next step up (basic modular armor) is all the way into red AND blue circuits (or the bob-equivalents). That's huge! So even with the new weapons, you can take out some enemies, or take out some and then run back to your laser wall, but it still suffers from "turret creep" syndrome. I'm not sure what the answer should be, but currently you just end up being a glass cannon until much later. But again, thanks to your weapons, at least you don't have to empty clip after clip into a single big bitter that never dies.

I'll try and keep that in mind. Perhaps an armor between Heavy and Modular made from other metals in my mod.

callmewoof wrote:There is also a possible mistake in your mod. It allows you to research and build the laser rifle and the subsequent ammo upgrades, but you can't build anything besides the gun. I traced the reason to the prototypes/technology/gun.lua. The first entry (laser rifle) only unlocks the recipe for the rifle and the basic ammo, but not the battery case required to make it (so you can never make any ammo). It is simply missing:

Code: Select all

	  {
        type = "unlock-recipe",
        recipe = "laser-rifle-battery-case"
      },

Once I added that (and forced the recipe since I had already researched laser rifles), everything worked. Perhaps you left it out on purpose because you didn't want to introduce the laser rifle stuff yet(?), I'm not sure. Sorry for the wall of text but thanks again for your hard work and fun mods!

no, that's an error, I'll look at it. It makes me wonder how I was able to produce the laser ammo if this recipe isn't unlocked...
edit: I think I remember. I had it there, in every research to unlock a laser ammo, then realised that since it's a chain, I only need it in the first one, so deleted them, deleting from the first one too by accident.

V0.1.4 is up.
* Removed code from exprimental flamethrower acid ammo, it caused issues with older versions of Factorio.
* Added missing Laser Rifle Ammo Case to Laser Rifle research.
* Added new Heavy-Armor 2 and 3 with research made from materials in MCI mod. These new armors are an easy to make improvement as an alternative to modular armor.

Hey bob been really enjoying this mod, especially the robot tanks. Any future plans for them? They don't need any fuel or power which is strange, but i understand implementing something where they auto recharge or refuel might be difficult if not impossible. Also after placing hundreds of them they get very difficult to control, they tend to separate and wander off into alien bases and die.

British_Petroleum wrote:Hey bob been really enjoying this mod, especially the robot tanks. Any future plans for them? They don't need any fuel or power which is strange, but i understand implementing something where they auto recharge or refuel might be difficult if not impossible. Also after placing hundreds of them they get very difficult to control, they tend to separate and wander off into alien bases and die.

They're just an experiement really, so no plans to do anything else with them. They're basically just a reskinned biter, so all the rules that apply to biters (unpowered, seeking out and destroying enemies in small groups) is also applied to these robots.

bug/typeo
icon = "__base__/graphics/technology/tanks.png", => icon = "__base__/graphics/icons/tank.png",

in bobwarfaer_0.1.4 / prototypes /technology as the "tanks.png" is not there but "tank.png" is in the over one.

Lee_newsum wrote:bug/typeo
icon = "__base__/graphics/technology/tanks.png", => icon = "__base__/graphics/icons/tank.png",

in bobwarfaer_0.1.4 / prototypes /technology as the "tanks.png" is not there but "tank.png" is in the over one.

If it wasn't there you'd get an error on load. I'm fairly sure (can't be certain without checking) that those are correct. The research uses tanks.png(a 64x64 image in the technology folder), presumably planned to use the same icon for multiple levels of tank research. Where the icon for the actual tank you can make is tank.png(a 32x32 image in the icons folder), because it is the icon of an indevidual tank.

The ap ammo in a gun turret with all upgrades is very good!

Look at all that bubblegum!

AP Ammo is pretty powerful, but single target. Try Explosive, or Acid, Poison, or Fire too, makes just as much bubblegum.

bobingabout wrote:

Lee_newsum wrote:bug/typeo
icon = "__base__/graphics/technology/tanks.png", => icon = "__base__/graphics/icons/tank.png",

in bobwarfaer_0.1.4 / prototypes /technology as the "tanks.png" is not there but "tank.png" is in the over one.

If it wasn't there you'd get an error on load. I'm fairly sure (can't be certain without checking) that those are correct. The research uses tanks.png(a 64x64 image in the technology folder), presumably planned to use the same icon for multiple levels of tank research. Where the icon for the actual tank you can make is tank.png(a 32x32 image in the icons folder), because it is the icon of an indevidual tank.

wen I got 0.1.4 this mod it had icon = "__base__/graphics/technology/tanks.png", and it did not load the "tanks.png" I have no file/png it that folder of the base game (0.11.13) but I fix it by editing it and it works for me.

looks like "tanks.png" was add 0.11.13>X

Lee_newsum wrote:wen I got 0.1.4 this mod it had icon = "__base__/graphics/technology/tanks.png", and it did not load the "tanks.png" I have no file/png it that folder of the base game (0.11.13) but I fix it by editing it and it works for me.

looks like "tanks.png" was add 0.11.13>X

looks like it's not in 0.11.15, but is in 0.11.20.

I suppose a fix would be for me to include that icon in the next version of the mod.

I want to say, thanks for making gun turrets useful again. They have a specific role to play, and don't replace lasers, but don't go obsolete now because of the new ammo. Perfect!

callmewoof wrote:I want to say, thanks for making gun turrets useful again. They have a specific role to play, and don't replace lasers, but don't go obsolete now because of the new ammo. Perfect!

Awesome.

Next, or maybe not the very next, but soon on my list is higher tier turrets, both gun and laser. The issue is the way gun turret upgrades work, I can add new turrets to the upgrade list, but that won't upgrade new types of turrets in old games. I need a way to access the stored multiplier values and apply them to the new turrets too. Still looking into that one.

I'm also thinking of adding a new type of ammo or two with a new turret type, and maybe even a rocket launcher turret too.

Also on the list is new robots, and reworking the combat robots construction tree.

And new vehicles.

To properly upgrade turret damage on new turrets I needed to make it two stage load - first one removes upgrade techs other adds new turrets that use gun turret damage upgrades. There is no problem if mod is used from start of the game.
It's kind tricky but works with drawback of need to research gun turret damage upgrades again.